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Old 01-03-2008, 03:45 AM   #11
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You do it for a test, i try and go deep!
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Old 01-05-2008, 01:07 AM   #12
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So, whos looking forward to the editor on monday and who's going to be trying to make some maps or anything else? =p
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Old 01-07-2008, 02:10 AM   #13
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Thought I'd get an early start on creating some stuff for the TD map I plan to start working on when the editor's released since I'll be busy for a lot of tomorrow.

I started by throwing together a quick modified lobby that is more standardized than the original. It's going to use the current squad interface on the lobby as teams instead for ease of editing and is going to use a 'ready system' seen quite commonly in RTS games.



I still have some scripting left to do for it yet but I may release the code for this specifically for people to use in their own maps as it's probably more suitable to use than the standard Savage 2 lobby and I can make it more friendly to edit. I will probably do this with a lot of other XML files too to speed up and ease the process of making 'trigger maps' in general for Savage 2.
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Old 01-07-2008, 02:50 AM   #14
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Default Modibility of K2 (Original Thread)

Just keeping a reference of the original thread here, feel free to ignore this.

---

As a few of people may have picked up from IRC and such, I am hugely interested in the modding side of Savage 2/K2, probably more so than the game itself. I'm hoping there's some others out there that can appreciate just how much modding capability could bring to this game.

There's not much known about modding yet, but with 0.9 coming out soon with the editor we should get to see a bit more, but here is a quick overview of what I know so far about scripting in K2:

.XML - These files usually contain the interface elements and is the primary format used with K2 scripting currently. They can be edited through the user directory (my documents), installation directory as well as being included as 'resources' for maps. A certain amount of scripting is also supported with the .XML files.

.CFG - These files are simple executed scripts (Exec), that parse commands directly to the console. It also supports some basic commands such as If and Goto. These files will eventually be integrated into the .XML format.

Triggers - The focus on these are in maps, and I assume modding too. They are essentially events such as on spawn or on death etc. I don't know much about this yet though, still waiting on the editor.

Now I'm going to separate the modding discussion into 3 parts that mods are typically going to be made as. Map Mods (Non-Standard maps with events/triggers), Addons (Small Modifications that would usually work alongside another mod) and Total Conversions (Complete modifications that effectively change the game altogether).

I hope K2 can become powerful at all 3 of these at the same time. There were games that topped these areas in modability but didn't necessarily do a good job of all 3 at the same time. The games that I feel did these best separately were:
(I'm not looking for a war over what game you think did it best, but these are very good contenders imo)

Total Conversions: Half-Life. Though it has plenty of competitors today for modding, this was the #1 game for total modifications with many of it's mods eventually becoming stand alone games more popular than the original. It was also very easy to just download a mod, install it and run it without any fuss.

Map Mods: Warcraft 3. There are tons of 'trigger maps' as they are called being made for this game even today, the amount of enjoyment you can get out of this game with it's easily made and very powerful maps is just amazing. There are trigger/custom maps or whatever you want to call them now that are referred to more than the game itself.

Addons: World of Warcraft. Like with K2 it uses .XML files for the interface elements but also has a very powerful LUA system alongside it that allows you to do just about anything, including create interface elements with it. Because of this people felt the .XML was weaker and largely unneeded and most people sought to remove the .XML usage altogether. The Addons in World of Warcraft usually revolve around extending the interface and making certain things quicker/easier to do.

Now let's look at how Savage 2/K2 will contend with these:

Total Conversions: Too little is known about full modding currently, but we can assume it will be fairly powerful since K2 is created as a completely separate entity to Savage 2, making Savage 2 effectively a modification itself. Savage 2 should theoretically match this in ease of use also since you can just place the folder in either the Installation directory or User directory and it has the capability to switch mods in-game. Whether a 'mods' menu will be added to the main menu of savage 2 yet though is still unknown.

Map Mods: Again very little is known about this so far. The true test will come with the ability to reference and edit dynamically created objects/units and the extensiveness of the Triggers. It will have no chance of matching Warcraft 3 with readily available content though. People never needed to worry about creating models in this game for example because there were so many available. I also doubt it'll be as easy to make the actual maps due to Warcraft 3's very traditional 2d RTS approach where as Savage 2 is much more 3d and with more varied landscape. Only time will tell though. One thing I can say for Savage 2 is it should be a lot easier and better at adding resources to the map, such as.. well, pretty much anything a mod can add. Model's, Music as well as completely modifying anything UI related.

Addons: I know a bit more about this one than the other 2 since an editor isn't so necessarily needed and I've played around with it myself. The actual design of the interface is much more friendly and easier to write in with Savage 2. But due to the lack of a proper scripting language it is not nearly as customizable or powerful and without it will likely mean that you need to supply full replacements for entire interface panel's when all you wanted to change was 1 little thing or add one simple script line.

The main drawback of K2 right now is the lack of a proper scripting language. Now writing one of these your self is... let's just say it's a pretty damn big task. Integrating it with another popular scripting language (such as LUA) is probably less time consuming.

The XML system seems to be quite awesome, but my fears are that it might not be enough even with the upgrades going into it post release. It just has too many weaknesses in it's current implementation that limits it's ability of being highly modifiable such as in the other mentioned games that imo only by adding a true scripting language can that be fixed.

I'll give 2 examples that show the main weakness with K2's modding currently:
1. You supply a new lobby screen with a map to give it a nicer looking background for example. If the loading screen is to get changed in Savage 2 the map will still use the old version with the new background until it is also updated. You can't just tell it, use all of the UI 'Except' this bit.
2. You have created a whole new panel with several new options that you have extended Savage 2 with, but in order to show that panel you need somewhere in the interface to click on, so you choose to put it on the main menu. To do this you need to supply an entirely new Main Menu file meaning if the Main Menu is edited the mod will also require updating.

Of course the above mentioned example will depend on just how extensive commands such as 'uicall' will get. This command allows you to interface with the.. interface and modify it. But I currently haven't seen the full extent of it's power and whether it is able to create and destroy interface objects.

Now my little ramble is over, I only hope there are others out there as interested in modding as me that would find any of this interesting or useful. Feel free to add anything to this or enlighten me where I'm wrong.
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Old 01-07-2008, 03:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanz View Post
Thought I'd get an early start on creating some stuff for the TD map I plan to start working on when the editor's released since I'll be busy for a lot of tomorrow.

I started by throwing together a quick modified lobby that is more standardized than the original. It's going to use the current squad interface on the lobby as teams instead for ease of editing and is going to use a 'ready system' seen quite commonly in RTS games.



I still have some scripting left to do for it yet but I may release the code for this specifically for people to use in their own maps as it's probably more suitable to use than the standard Savage 2 lobby and I can make it more friendly to edit. I will probably do this with a lot of other XML files too to speed up and ease the process of making 'trigger maps' in general for Savage 2.

What language do you use to code that?


===========================================

This isn't really modding, it's skinning, but I'm not sure what I did wrong here.

I extracted the textures-low.s2z, converted the shapeshifters skin to a .tga, edited it, converted back to .dds and re-zipped the folders, making sure it was a .s2z.

But when I went to play the game and got into a game, all my textures just showed black/white/grey, but there were no actual textures.

What did I do wrong?
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Old 01-07-2008, 03:52 AM   #16
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I've updated the original post of this topic to be more relevant and up to date as it was a bit of a mess beforehand. Feel free to continue using this thread for anything modding related.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantrof View Post
What language do you use to code that?
XML.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantrof View Post
This isn't really modding, it's skinning, but I'm not sure what I did wrong here.

I extracted the textures-low.s2z, converted the shapeshifters skin to a .tga, edited it, converted back to .dds and re-zipped the folders, making sure it was a .s2z.

But when I went to play the game and got into a game, all my textures just showed black/white/grey, but there were no actual textures.

What did I do wrong?
.DDS has a lot of saving options, I expect you'd need to find out what settings the ones in Savage 2 used before being able to use them in game. I'll probably be able to tell you sooner or later because it's something I meant to get around to myself anyway. I'm also not certain that K2 supports .zip's of different compression levels, you might want to check that the .S2z is using the basic standard compression level.

Last edited by Stanz; 01-07-2008 at 04:13 AM.
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Old 01-07-2008, 03:54 AM   #17
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Stanz - Kyle will be your best friend! You'll probably be VERY key in determining how modding is handled in Savage 2, so stay vigalent (sp?).
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Old 01-07-2008, 04:25 AM   #18
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Well, I'm reading through the .xml files and finding most of it fairly easy to understand, so I may be able to help with future mods, currently just putting in new sounds though..

EDIT: never mind, apparently I can't even do that right

EDIT EDIT: I am now working on a daft punk sounds mod
Any song recomendations?
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Old 01-07-2008, 04:57 AM   #19
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Good documentation work stan
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:03 AM   #20
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Sorry, who is planning a dota mod? Details?
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