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Old 09-20-2012, 01:51 PM   #1
Drcaonic

 
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Grenade The Art of War on Savage 2

I rarely start threads on forums. That’s mostly because I typically have very little to say. However, I recently read a bit of The Art of War by Sun Tzu, the ancient Chinese tactician. You know the phrase, “All war is based on deception?” He coined it. Anyway, I found myself thinking about how I could apply his teachings to Savage. Of course, I don’t expect anyone to want to read a whole load of complex nonsense, and even though The Art of War isn’t too difficult to understand, the idea here is how you can apply some of Sun Tzu’s cleverness for use in Ancient Cities, Mirakir, or anywhere else on Newerth where you might be competing. I only have a couple of examples here, but I could write an entire book with annotations if I tried to give you all the info that I could possible squeeze out of the book. So I’ve taken the following select few, and devised strategies that could be based around them. You may well have thought of these plans yourself before. I’m just giving them some extra context.

First up, “Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder and crush him.”
Now, you might say to me, “You moron, everyone has a minimap on their screen. You can’t hide anywhere, so how are we supposed to use bait? Not to mention what the hell are we supposed to use as bait?” I will address these questions: First of all, there are ways to fool opponents into thinking that you don’t notice them. Second, you have tons of bait: sentry bats/electric eyes, apparently unguarded sublairs/garrisons, and most importantly; yourselves!

The following strategy begins as either a Marksman or a Hunter. Place an electric eye/sentry bat out in the open. Someone or other on the other team will see it, and here is the first thought that will pop into their heads: “Free EXP!” and they will go for it. Walk around aimlessly in the same general area as the bat-murderer/mech vandal, and they'll think you're busy killing a creep or are just ignoring them in favor of a bigger prize. Then you (and perhaps a friend) can charge over, and start beating on them while they’re still breaking the bait down. And often, they’ll keep attacking the eye/bat anyway.

This next strategy works best with quick units like Marksman and Shapeshifter: If you’re low on health and are unable to heal, get the attention of one of your opponents. Chances are, he’ll come running over to get that kill. If you can, lead him toward some of your other teammates. Just when the poor bastard thinks he has you, your pals can jump him and break him like a rusty paperclip. You might still die performing this technique, but you’ll certainly have gone out with a bang. Remember: This is a team game. If you really have a chance in a fight, by all means tear your opponent apart, but if you’re low on health, give that kill to someone else.

That's all I've got for today. Join me for my next post,
“If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him.”
See ya next time.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:49 PM   #2
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"By holding out baits, he keeps him on the march; then with a body of picked men he lies in wait for him."

Was what I was thinking when I swiftly jumped out of a bush to doubleswing a group of enemies and finish them off on Mirakar.

On the topic, there are not that many tactics you can play that make use of baits due to how long it takes for you to regroup/shift your troops around. Sure on the public servers you may draw veterans towards you when you're at low hp, but other than that, there are no good guaranteed macroscopic level strategies.

Holding out baits therefore in Savage 2 can never be a viable plan, but a tool in making plans. There is one example that does however come to my mind that works occasionally in public games, the siege rush when your enemy is going hellbourne.

“Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder and crush him.”

The bait here would be leaving the scar uncontested, making the enemy see it as an opportunity to quickly grab the advantage of hellbourne units. The feign disorder part would be the countless hapless noobies that die to the incoming hellbourne swarm. The crushing him part would be the siege rush that goes against the enemy stronghold.

In reality, the "feign disorder" part is not feigned, it's actual disorder and the reason why you can get siegerushed is because when the victory is at hand, people tend to get tunnel-visioned.
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Old 09-22-2012, 02:41 AM   #3
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This thread is full of no.
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It's time to take up the last defense. It's time to become as close to real as possible. I was found to be shining bright. When the day comes that I become greater than you, you can pick up your cards and play them again, the last one will fall and I'll pick you up, and carry you into the Door to Light.
and my heart will come alive.

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Old 09-23-2012, 04:52 PM   #4
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This thread is full of no.
Ey, if it isn't the greatest Savage 2 commander of all time!

I heard you won great games on Deadlock?
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:09 PM   #5
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Yeah. Deadlock is simple shit.
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and my heart will come alive.
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:59 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Taawus View Post
In reality, the "feign disorder" part is not feigned, it's actual disorder and the reason why you can get siegerushed is because when the victory is at hand, people tend to get tunnel-visioned.
You make a lot of good points, and this is the only one I can argue with: I'm not talking about what people already do; I'm talking about what people should do. We need to be more organized during those times. That way, for instance, we can wait around for a malphas to come around the bend, thinking he's about slaughter a bunch of guys running around aimlessly in the next clearing, and then chaplain/shaman swarm him and kill him in seconds. We often are disorganized, which means that if we are organized but we don't make that obvious, the enemy can be drawn into a trap. Anyway, thank you for the rest of your comment; it was very insightful.
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:25 PM   #7
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Grenade The Art of War on Savage 2 - Part 2

My second post is about the following rule: “If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him.”
I just know you're all gonna kill me for telling you to avoid the enemy. That's not the ultimate point.

This rule is important because it reminds us to do something that we often neglect: Sticking together. And that is going to be the focus of this post.

As i was saying, you tend to get killed less often if you team up with several of your teammates against your opponents. This, of course, is obvious. Except that so few of us ever actually do this. We each go our own separate ways and we’ll give assists to anyone we see fighting an enemy, however, we rarely go in groups.

Builders and conjurers are the most common units to follow one another because you always want to get your natural up ASAP. We should do this sort of synchronized dash when going on the offensive as well, but this seems to only happen during those desperate moments when the enemy is ravaging a garrison or sublair and half the team spawns in the same place. Except that when we do that, it’s often too late already. We have to mobilize before it gets desperate. If the commander says that we’re being attacked, we can’t afford to say ‘just a sec;’ we’ve gotta haul our ass back to the nearest base and respawn in the zone of attack. Otherwise we’re leaving our sublair/garrison to be reduced to a messy paste.

Most of all, if our commander orders us to rush an enemy’s outpost, we shouldn’t just spawn and rush over there: That’s a recipe for what I like to call ‘repetitive death syndrome.’ And yes, it means exactly what you think it does. When our commander orders us to rush the base, we assemble at the nearest spawning point, and wait for at least five or six others to get there. Then you all charge over to the enemy’s outpost as a group. Not as scattered guys that just keep running in and being a huge nuisance. This way you’ll not only be more likely to survive, but you’ll also do more damage. They won’t be nearly as prepared for a mob as they will for two or three guys at a time. And when that time comes, it’ll be time for…FACE STOPMING CARNAGE!… and yes, I did just rip that off from Kid Icarus: Uprising, but my point remains perfectly valid.

Anyway, I’ll see you for my next rule: “If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them.”
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:00 AM   #8
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Clearly Sun Tzu didn't have automatic sentry guns that builders could carry.
Just sayin...
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:43 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by happyflame View Post
Clearly Sun Tzu didn't have automatic sentry guns that builders could carry.
Just sayin...
I know that there are valid points in my pieces here. I really should have guessed that everyone would ignore them in favor of making sarcastic comments about anything and everything that could be seen as inaccurate.

Last edited by Drcaonic; 10-09-2012 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drcaonic View Post
I know that there are valid points in my pieces here. I really should have guessed that everyone would ignore hem in favor of making sarcastic comments about anything and everything that could be seen as inaccurate.
Welcome to the forums =P

Anyways, I like what you're writing and how you're trying to apply the tactics you read to Savage 2
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